Goooooooood MORNIN TOR.COM!! Hey, this is not a test, this is a Wheel of Time Reread Redux!
Today’s Redux post will cover Chapters 57 and 58 of The Shadow Rising (or, you know, the end of the book), originally reread in this post.
All original posts are listed in The Wheel of Time Reread Index here, and all Redux posts will also be archived there as well. (The Wheel of Time Master Index, as always, is here, which has links to news, reviews, interviews, and all manner of information about the Wheel of Time in general on Tor.com.)
The Wheel of Time Reread is also available as an e-book series! Yay!
All Reread Redux posts will contain spoilers for the entire Wheel of Time series, so if you haven’t read, read at your own risk.
And now, the post!
Before we begin, a reminder that the format of the Reread Redux has changed: from now on I am only going to be commenting on chapters in which my reaction has changed significantly from before, based on the knowledge I had at the time. However, there’s no skip from last post this time, so it’s all good!
BUT, I do want to note that this, apparently, is the first time in the original Reread that I paused to express my feelings about the cover art on the final post for that book. Just for fun, here’s the full cover art:
And I’m just gonna quote what I said in the original commentary here, because it is still (a) accurate and (b) hilarious:
…my least favorite of all the WOT covers (in which The Little Woman cooks for Random Archer Guy and his friend Eighties Sweatband Guy, who clearly fell through a time warp from a Richard Simmons workout tape onto the Oregon Trail, where he never got a chance to learn how to wear them old-fangled coats before they all died of dysentery).
LOL. For modern-day commentary, I will note that that link serves to remind me that Busted Tees is apparently still a going concern eight years later, which is pretty cool. And also that eight years later, I should probably link to a more cogent explanation of what the hell my Oregon Trail reference is about, because get off my lawn.
Re: the cover itself, I was going to say that it’s probably not my least favorite cover anymore, but on reflection, actually it probably still is. Not because it’s necessarily worse than some of the others (Winter’s Heart and Knife of Dreams being particular standouts on that score), but because this one also has just that little extra soupçon of unconscious sexism that puts it over the top.
That said, the full cover art reminds me that, once again, while Mr. Sweet’s human figures are never going to be my favorites, his skill at choosing gorgeous palettes for and painting fantastical backgrounds is still amazing.
Onward!
Chapter 57: A Breaking in the Three Fold Land
Redux Commentary
[In this chapter: Rand arrives at Alcair Dal to make his bid for leadership of the Aiel, only to find that a charlatan beat him there:]
Couladin ranted on, waving his arms to make sure all saw. “ . . . will not stop with the lands of the oathbreakers! We will take all the lands to the Aryth Ocean! The wetlanders cannot stand against—” Suddenly he became aware of the silence where eager cries had been. He knew what had caused it. Without turning to look at Rand, he shouted, “Wetlander! Look at his clothes! A wetlander!”
“A wetlander,” Rand agreed. He did not raise his voice, but the canyon carried it to everyone. The Shaido looked startled for a moment, then grinned triumphantly—until Rand went on. “What does the Prophecy of Rhuidean say? ‘Born of the blood.’ My mother was Shaiel, a Maiden of the Chumai Taardad.” Who was she really? Where did she come from? “My father was Janduin, of the Iron Mountain sept, clan chief of the Taardad.” My father is Tam al’Thor. He found me, raised me, loved me. I wish I could have known you, Janduin, but Tam is my father. “ ‘Born of the blood, but raised by those not of the blood.’ Where did the Wise Ones send to look for me? Into the holds of the Three-fold Land? They sent across the Dragonwall, where I was raised. According to the prophecy.”
[…] Couladin’s confidence never wavered; he sneered openly at Rand, the first time he had even looked at him. “How long since the Prophecy of Rhuidean was first spoken?” He still seemed to think he had to shout. “Who can say how much the words have changed? My mother was Far Dareis Mai before she gave up the spear. How much has the rest changed? Or been changed! It is said we once served the Aes Sedai. I say they mean to bind us to them once more! This wetlander was chosen because he resembles us! He is none of our blood! He came with Aes Sedai leading him on a leash! And the Wise Ones greeted them as they would first-sisters! You have all heard of Wise Ones who can do things beyond belief. The dreamwalkers used the One Power to keep me from this wetlander! They used the One Power, as Aes Sedai are said to do! The Aes Sedai have brought this wetlander here to bind us with fakery! And the dreamwalkers help them!”
“This is madness!” Rhuarc strode up beside Rand, staring out at the still silent gathering. “Couladin never went to Rhuidean, I heard the Wise Ones refuse him. Rand al’Thor did go. I saw him leave Chaendaer, and I saw him return, marked as you see.”
“And why did they refuse me?” Couladin snarled. “Because the Aes Sedai told them to! Rhuarc does not tell you that one of the Aes Sedai went down from Chaendaer with this wetlander! That is how he returned with the Dragons! By Aes Sedai witchery! My brother Muradin died below Chaendaer, murdered by this wetlander and the Aes Sedai Moiraine, and the Wise Ones, doing Aes Sedai bidding, let them walk free! When night came, I went to Rhuidean. I did not reveal myself until now because this is the proper place for the Car’a’carn to show himself! I am the Car’a’carn!”
Lies, touched with just enough flecks of truth. The man was all victorious confidence, sure he had an answer for anything.
For no particular reason, noted public policy scholar and former U.S. Secretary of Labor Robert Reich recently posted a list of warning signs of impending tyranny that I found myself irresistibly reminded of when reading this passage. A number of his points apply to Couladin’s strategy here, but the biggest two are, I think, also the most sinister. Not to mention the most frustrating.
First of these tactics is Couladin’s appeal to the Aiel’s entrenched xenophobia. Xenophobia is generally defined as “an intense or irrational fear of foreigners”, and this is a fault the highly insular Aiel certainly possess in spades. Even more damagingly, it is coupled with a long-cherished belief that Aiel culture and people are inherently superior to “wetlander” culture and peoples, and in the near dearth of influence from the wider world, there’s sadly never been any reason for them to dispute this assumption.
Such a combination can make it difficult in the extreme for anyone tarred even slightly with the brush of “outsider” to gain traction among them, a fact which Couladin and Sevanna (and Asmodean, I suppose) take full advantage of in their ploy to steal the Aiel’s loyalty right out from under Rand’s nose. “Wetlander!” Couladin cries, pointing to Rand, in full faith that that accusation alone may be enough to win him the day. And he almost was not wrong. But fortunately Rand was able to provide a certified account of his birth that proved Couladin wrong—at least for those who were willing to believe him.
The second and even more insidious aspect of Couladin’s attack is his blatant manipulation of the truth—his willingness to tell such grand and bold falsehoods that they serve to confuse and obscure his audience’s sense of what is true and what is not. And good lies, as everyone knows, are the ones that are seeded with just enough truth to confuse the issue completely. And the best lies are the ones that also play to their audience’s preconceived notions and prejudices.
Who are you gonna believe? Couladin says. Some dreary wetlander who wants us to face up to the lies we’ve all told ourselves about our supposedly glorious past, or a good ol’ Seia Doon boy who’s promising you the triumph and splendor we Aiel all most definitely deserve, and screw who we hurt to get it?
Because it must be true, right? Surely no one, no matter how arrogant, would so brazenly twist the truth out in front of everyone, with such confidence, right? And even if they did, surely no one would then cling to such barefaced untruths in the face of direct contradiction from the Wise Ones and clan chiefs, the trusted elders and leaders of the Aiel nation, would they? Surely not.
Well, as it turns out, he would. And don’t call me Shirley.
And the fact that he did it, means that the Aiel nation becomes fundamentally and irrevocably split down the middle; divided into those who accept the truth, however reluctantly, grit their teeth and get on with dealing with it, and those who decide pride and profit and willful blindness trump all else, and then proceed to make life miserable for everyone else for like seven more books before finally fucking off and leaving the rest alone at last to finally fight evil properly like we were TRYING to do this whole time, God.
So, you know. Good times. GOOD TIMES FOR ALL.
Chapter 58: The Traps of Rhuidean
Redux Commentary
Aaaand then Lanfear, and Asmodean, and big fight, and the end of the book, for the first time without Ishamael getting all up in Rand’s Kool-aid first, which is a nice change of pace. Hurray!
I opined at the end of the original commentary here that TSR was not my favorite of the books, but probably the best written of them, and that evaluation… still basically stands. I do still think that TSR contains some of the best and most memorable writing of the entire series, as well as being one of the best structured overall. But certain especially beloved moments in ACOS still compel me to keep it at the top of my list of favorite WOT books. Even though I know how many people were disappointed in it when it came out, I can’t help it, it’s still my fave.
But, that said, TSR is still the bomb diggety in the WOT oeuvre, y’all. Never doubt it.
And that’s where we drop the mic, Mike! But come on back in two weeks when I start The Fires of Heaven, wontcha? Yay!
Ohh that Couladin! He’s such a rascal. This is one of those frustrating things that really gets you as a reader. I agree that The Shadow Rising is probably one of the best written, structured and paced of the books in the series. The plot still had momentum here in this book.
I think that Couladin believed what he said about the Aiel’s origins. He could not fathom his words to be anything other than the truth. Sevanna, on the other hand, very quickly comes to realize Couladin’s statements are lies. Yet, she tries to pass them off as the truth. IMO, she is much worse than Couladin for that reason. In some ways, I can accept Couladin. He is a rabid fanatic who cannot possibly conceive that he is mistaken. Do not get me wrong. He still has to be stopped. But in some ways he is still true to himself. I believe that had Couladin gone through the glass forest like his brother, Couladin would have suffered the same fate. He could never bear to live with the truth. Sevanna is the worst type of an individual. She is so power hungry that she will out right lie to get what she wants. To her the truth means nothing. She will do anything to get her way. She is the person who will seize power and will then became the ruthless dictator that will do whatever it takes to stay in power: kill, take away all the freedoms that his/her people have known before taking power, and systematically dismantle all aspects of society to crush his/her opponents until there is no opposition.
Rand could have saved himself much drama (and all self inflicted) if he would have treated the Maidens the same as the other Aiel fighters. Even if Rand had to retain his chivalrous but sexist attitudes towards / treatment of all other women, Rand could have placed the Maidens in a separate category. Oh well. If he treated the Maidens like they wanted him to treat him, Rand would not be the same Rand we came to love (or hate, depending upon your opinion of Rand).
I think Mierin knew what she was doing when she bored the hole. There is no textual evidence (and no word of RJ that I know of). I just have this gut feeling. Somehow, someway the Dark One mentally reached beyond his prison and communicated with her. He convinced her that by “drilling” a hole into his prison, he could offer Mierin a vast level of power that would put her over everybody else. Especially allow her to get back at the sun haired trollop and her former lover. Either that, or in her research, Mierin found some long lost document talking about the powers of the Dark One and that he was trapped in a type of prison. If she somehow freed him, he would then grant her immense powers. More so than she already had.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
ACOS is your favorite? Probably the first time I’ve ever heard that! My experience in the WoT community was that many marked ACOS as the beginning of the downfall of the series, where many theorized that RJ was milking the series. KoD was the first book since LoC that I remember having a favorable buzz from the community (though I am rather fond of Winter’s Heart myself).
“And the fact that he did it, means that the Aiel nation becomes fundamentally and irrevocably split down the middle; divided into those who accept the truth, however reluctantly, grit their teeth and get on with dealing with it, and those who decide pride and profit and willful blindness trump all else, and then proceed to make life miserable for everyone else for like seven more books before finally fucking off and leaving the rest alone at last to finally fight evil properly like we were TRYING to do this whole time, God.” – ha, I see what you did there and I totally applaud it. It’s really quite bizarre how similar it is, and how even in books/movies most people recognize this figure and what he is doing but in real life…
TSR is and remains my favorite :)
great book and thanks for the reread. the parallel with the Reich warning is just…. wow
Agreed that ACOS is one of the best books, but TSR has the Ancestetron, which is hands down my favorite sequence in the series, it it edges out ACOS.
Why the assumption that Moiraine is playing the subservient serving wench on the cover? Aes Sedai get hungry just like everyone else. She isn’t getting Rand his dinner; she is serving herself.
With the original cover was one of the more disappointing ones, the new Shadow Rising cover is one of the best of the new ones. Mat doing the whole unflinching walk on a book cover is pretty damn impressive.
@7 That thought occured to me as well. And then I also thought “And hey, if it IS meant to depict Moiraine serving the Rand, that’s accurate to the book as well, since she started to do so just to be able to stay close to him.” but then realized “Oh wait, that’s next book!”
I don’t especially dislike the TSR cover, though I was never sure who it portrayed. The ones that irked me most are on TGH and LOC, for the most inaccurate portrayals of Shadowspawn.
TEOTW and TGH are my WOT favorites, but I much enjoyed TSR too. It has a decent amount of Shadowspawn page-time, especially compared to most of the later books.
I actually love the book cover. I never saw anything subservient about Moirain serving herself a dinner – I always supposed that Rand and Mat have cooked it, and will do the dishes afterwards (which, in the Waste, is probably extra difficult). Since they are clearly already after dinner, she´s probably late from some plotting – I mean chatting – with the Wise ones. And even though I agree that the human figures never are quite like I imagine the characters, Mr. Sweets covers have that certain something that, for me, is a big part of why I picked that first book from a library shelf – oh so many years ago. The covers just say: epic fantasy, high quality and sort of classical feel to it. Had I seen the new covers, nice, but sort of computery (is that a word?), I´d probably think it´s some boring, cheap and ridiculously long LOTR knock-off. (I know they say not to judge a book by its cover…).
I never thought Moiraine was cooking. Everything we know about Moiraine indicates she’d never do anything like that, and all the artist shows is a woman with a bowl. Seems to me to be a bit of an example of “someone looking to be offended will always find something”.
Is it Moiraine? I always assumed it was Egwene.
Austin@14
The blue dress would hint at it being Moiraine. That said, I don’t see it as Moiraine necessary serving the boys either. She looks like she’s serving herself.
It’s a subtle implication from the posturing but the woman is holding her bowl above the pots implying she’s moving something from the bowl into the pot -cooking. If she was serving herself the bowl would be level or below the pots, she could be mid motion standing up but she’s also very focused on the pots. If you recognised Moiraine first it’s easy to assume she wouldn’t be cooking but none of the characters are particularly recognisable apart from the blue dress. It may not be the impression that was intended but once you’ve made that first impression from the posture it’s hard to break even recognising Moiraine.
@16 Gaiazun: That made me look at the picture really thoroughly and now I read it as: Moiraine had just served herself a bowl of soup (or whatewer it is in the pot), but found a piece in it she doesn´t like (say, a recognizable piece of a lizard), and while Rand and Mat are not looking, she is about to pick it with her spoon and throw it back in the pot. The Aiel on the left sees it though. He has a disapproving look. Moiraine has definitely lost some ji here.
Gaiazun @16: Your interpretation is reasonable, but to me it seems that keeping the bowl over the pot while serving yourself is perfectly reasonable: that way, if you accidentally slop some over the side, it falls back into the pot instead of onto the ground.
@leigh: I’m actually on ACoS right now in my re-read; Cadsuane had just made her first appearance when I read your post. I’m powering through and am remembering how many _really_ good scenes there are in this book. In particular, I just read the Mat/Birgitte scene and for the first time consciously noticed the subtle syntax shift that shows they’re speaking in the Old Tongue. I’m not really sure I have a favorite book as such (I like aspects of every book), but ACoS is definitely up there in terms of “number of awesome scenes.”
Moraine isn’t stupid: if she does the cooking she knows she won’t get diarrhea later. :)
Hello, everyone. I come late to the online party, but I’ve read this series more times than I should probably admit. :)
Well, I look at the cover, and I look at your comment, and I say… Are you sure it isn’t you who is sexist? It doesn’t look like she’s necessarily cooking for anybody, she could just be getting her portion of the food that somebody else already cooked. I’m not complimenting the cover art by any means, I’ve always hated the cover art for the Wheel of Time books, but I think this particular criticism is a little silly. Darrell K. Sweet is a horrible artist, in my opinion, and you should never attempt to make any logical conclusions based on his cover art. These still look like the Sword of Shannarra cover, and how many years ago was that? Yes, he’s wearing a headband. Do you not remember basically everybody being given a wet cloth to wrap around their heads? Mat wearing one around his head before he buy’s Kadere’s hat, etc.
I read the preview and this sounds combative or something. I don’t mean it to be, just trying to be honest with what I see there and the tone of your comments. Darrell K. Sweet is a horrible artist, in my opinion. These still look like the Sword of Shannarra cover, and how many years ago was that? Why does it have to be sexist instead of her just getting herself some food?
I came in late to this, so this is my first post, even though I’ve actually been reading the Wheel of Time since the first book hit my local new fiction shelf.
RedHand @20: Welcome! Come for the Wheel of Time, stay for the gender commentary, amirite? Have you read the older parts of the Re-Read? Lots of good discussion there, more thorough than this Re-Read Redux, I think. Unfortunately it’s all super old, so unlikely that you could reply to anything and get a response. But I recommend checking it out if you’re a fan!
After this re-read of TSR I’m on board with it being one of the best books of the series, for reasons mentioned by Leigh and other commenters above.
That cover though…while the scenery is beautifully executed, I don’t imagine the Three-fold Land looking quite like that. My head canon is more like the Mojave desert.
I get the feeling we’re over-analyzing the who-is-cooking-for-whom question, but that’s what we’re all about, isn’t it?
First things first, the cover: I laughed at Leigh’s original commentary (because I too am quite familiar with the Oregon Trail game and thus showing my age), but in retrospect the cover seems less offensive than I remember. For some reason I originally thought the woman was Egwene, but the dress makes no sense so it has to be Moiraine. Which…yeah, once she started serving Rand this scene would make sense, but that doesn’t happen till the next book. So…I guess she is just serving herself, detailed analysis of her pose and the stew pot notwithstanding? (Which should probably be taken with a grain of salt anyway since, Sweet.) Aside from that though, the thing that got me is the way Rand and Mat are dressed (what the heck? And I guess this is before Mat got the hat?) and that the wagon does not at all look the way I expected. I suspect Sweet was influenced by the desert/Old West type setting (complete with the Aiel as the Native Americans) and hence the Conestoga look. Speaking of the Aiel, I find it very odd they are drawn taking care of the horses. Those really should have been gai’shain, who would have done it thanks to ji’e’toh despite their personal lack of need for them. The background, though, is absolutely gorgeous.
A lot has been said (and will continue to be said) about the strange and often dysfunctional relationship between Rand and the Maidens. But I always felt choked up, and rather proud, of the fact they took to him so instantly and completely, and that after so long of never knowing the children they gave away, now that they finally know one and he is the Car’a’carn it changes everything for them. I still feel this way today. The lack of any interaction before this, that having a child come back at all–and having a male among the Maidens–is so unprecedented, makes it easy to understand why things remain rough and rocky between them for so long, even on top of Rand being raised with wetlander ways and his messed-up sense of chivalry. And whatever comes later, I always appreciated this connection from the start. As for the tickling…I actually found it funny, and oddly sweet.
Considering what happens, it’s probably just as well that Moiraine and the Wise Ones didn’t get to go in Alcair Dal, but I have to laugh at the reason they won’t go being because if they break custom and enter a men’s meeting, the men will turn around and want to enter theirs. Granted, there are some things the men wouldn’t understand (and vice versa), but it’s so petty and protective of power that it rings true. As we know from the real world, countless people are often made upset by someone they deem as less worthy than themselves being given the same power/privilege/rights as they have, regardless of whether their own is actually lessened or denied because of this. Or who are so desperate to keep from losing power due to equality being granted that they’d do anything to prevent it…
Rand warning everyone to be on their guard: of course he is thinking of Asmo and Lanfear, who won’t respect anything about Aiel customs, but the irony is that thanks to what Couladin tells everyone, a lot of the Shaido (and some of the other clans too) actually would end up ‘bothering’ Aes Sedai later on. A lot of customs are about to be broken.
Mat coming along: while in retrospect there doesn’t seem to be a reason he was there, I do have to point out that his asking to come along is clearly predicated on the idea of Rand needing someone to guard his back in case things dissolve into violence. The fact in the end Rand goes off after Asmo so that Mat doesn’t need to protect him (and actually couldn’t, in that sort of fight) doesn’t change his reason for wanting to go, and from what I recall he did help at least somewhat while Rand was gone in keeping the Taardad safe from the Shaido. Choosing to go as a precaution that ends up mostly not needed isn’t bad writing, just a case of not everything in a story having a neat explanation or use. Also, I suspect his inclusion here was a case of symmetry: this is the first time we find out just how dangerous and problematic Couladin is actually going to be, and when he actually causes the real division among the Aiel; Mat is the one who ends up killing him in Cairhien, which ends the division (mostly, other than the Shaido), so it makes sense he should be present for when Couladin begins it. He gets a measure of the man, which will help him take him out later.
As for Couladin and his undercutting of Rand/twisting of the truth to try and rally the Aiel to his xenophobic cause…I am with Leigh (and others) on how startling the resemblances have been between WOT and current events lately, particularly in this book alone. Some might accuse us of seeing what we want to see, but I think it is actually the reverse–the reason these events, tactics, themes, and character types seem so relevant to us at this moment in history is not because we are reaching, or because they happen to be very much on our minds, but because the kinds of tactics used by totalitarians, fascists, and other tyrants have always been the same throughout history, and Jordan knew this. So it’s not that, to use another political example, George Lucas was basing Senator Palpatine’s rise to power off of George W. Bush as he was accused of (if any U.S. leader, he said he was more thinking of Nixon), but that he was reaching farther back to Hitler and other totalitarian despots. Couladin seems familiar to us, not just because we have a current example to compare him to, but because both of them (and Nixon, and Hitler, and countless others) are from a long line of examples who act, speak, and plot in the same way on their path to ascendancy. People like them are always the same, in the end, which makes them easy to spot (except for those who are misled and blind to the truth), but unfortunately difficult to stamp out, and apparently they will always keep returning to dog us. Which means in the end that even if that list of warning signs of impending tyranny is something we need currently, seeing how it compares to Couladin just tells us how often this has happened before and that being aware and vigilant will always be relevant.
Though I will say that Couladin’s cries of Aes Sedai “fakery” and the Wise Ones/Rhuarc being complicit in the resistance against him do seem…a bit on-the-nose, as does Couladin’s appeal to a glory day of Aiel power and conquest.
Also, Leigh’s sly comment on Rand’s “certified account of his birth” to shut Couladin down is absolute gold. And her entire commentary on Couladin, the Shaido, and what happened to the Aiel is such a perfect, point-for-point diatribe on current events that I am in awe, wildly applauding, and reminded why I love her as a writer.
On a much lighter note, I love how Rand still doesn’t understand the rules of Skimming, that apparently the Skimming place is as malleable to the will as TAR (considering how it lets you cross thousands of miles in a very short time, the same way TAR does, and for that matter the Ways, there likely is some kind of connection). No, Rand, in the place where what you think becomes reality, you don’t start wondering if your only support is independent of you or not! Also, the black threads: based on the number of times they come up in the old WOTFAQ, I am guessing there must have a lot of debate about them back in the day. Sad I missed it. I’m also sad Sanderson didn’t find a way to bring them back one more time, like he did so much else. But the only times he really could have done so were when Rand met Moridin in TAR (and meeting Ishy in dreamshards or TAR didn’t always reveal the cords before) or at Shayol Ghul since reality was collapsing there including TAR. Ah well.
I’m pretty sure I figured out Natael was Asmodean by this point, though I’m not sure why other than Kadere being too obvious the same way Isendre was. If we’d known ahead of time that Asmodean meant musician in the Old Tongue that of course would have given it away instantly. Speaking of Asmo, as much as the other Forsaken (and the fandom at large) have disparaged him, he really doesn’t show much weakness in the Power here. Even before they get to Rhuidean we have mile-high sheets of flame…so if he really was the weakest of the male Forsaken, that must not have been by too much. (It was noted in the Guide that the Forsaken were the thirteen strongest among the Dreadlords, so even if he were number 13 in power level, that’d still put him way above all the other Dreadlords out there.) In fact the Companion ranks him at ++3, which is one level below Demandred and two below Ishamael, so he really was quite strong. I find myself rather pleased by this, since it explains why he was a good teacher for Rand–being so strong allowed him to do a lot more with the Power, so he could teach about it better.
I do remember, though, being very shocked at Rand severing the black cords and cutting Asmo off from the Dark One–not that he’d want to of course, but that he could. This really is a game-changer even beyond how it will give him a One Power teacher, which explains Lanfear’s reaction. It’s also a hint at how many things once believed impossible will be coming true in upcoming books.
Speaking of Lanfear: so catty, saying she likes watching men fight. And the interesting throwaway bit about her having seen the broken ter’angreal in the Panarch’s Museum. What was she doing in Tanchico, I wonder? I can only assume this was before Moghedien and the Black Ajah got there, but perhaps not; despite Lanfear claiming TAR as her domain Birgitte said Moghedien was better there so could easily have hidden from her (and seeing her there may even have been how she found the Domination Band and the seal). And of course Lanfear was already expert at avoiding the Black Ajah if she wanted to.
And we also have the infamous “My name is Lanfear!” speech. I am still divided as to why she hates being reminded of her old name so much. The way events fall out in AMoL it’s clear she has no real loyalty to the Dark One (not that we thought she did before, but that book clinched it), so unless she just loves being the Daughter of the Night too much, I’d guess she does hate being reminded of her once good self. The reason, though, could be one of several–because she considers goodness weak and her past self pitiful, because it was this self which Lews Therin rejected for Ilyena, or because she did indeed receive hate and scorn for her part in drilling the Bore and thus chose to abandon it in a “Then Let Me Be Evil” sense. The way she spoke to both Perrin and Rand in the last book makes me wonder if part of her does regret, if only a tiny bit, what she has become and thus the name Mierin hurts her to remember when she was good. But I suspect her reaction here is the first reason (goodness is weak so I reject my past self–That Woman is Dead!), and the reason she could accept the name from Rand was because it was her attempt to pretend she was still the woman Lews Therin once loved and thus allow her to get him under her control.
I must also admit to admiration for Lanfear that she could stand to disguise herself as Keille. It probably helps that she thought Rand would never figure out it was her, and so she wouldn’t be sullying her image in his eyes.
I love that the fight (which would indeed be awesome to see onscreen) managed to have a positive side-benefit, releasing the lake to bring water to Rhuidean (and fulfilling Min’s viewing of pouring water on sand, possibly). Aviendha’s Way-Forward vision suggests Rhuidean really will be finished and lived in, and I hope that part of the Bad Future still comes true.
The statuettes: I doubt Moiriane knows exactly what they are, unless she’s done research on the Choedan Kal too–the one in Cairhien wasn’t known of until Galldrian had it dug up, which was long after she went to the White Tower and then out searching for Rand, and no clue on whether anyone knows about the one on Tremalking; Alviarin went there but she had other sources of information. But she could at least sense the female one used saidar, so there’s that.
I agree with Leigh, the footer prophecy is a great one, and references a favorite myth of mine as well. The way Jordan works it in (the People of the Dragon), ties it in with the spears, and also the reference to the “wasted lands”, was very well done. And as for the book? I’m not sure which book in the series is my favorite aside from the first–I want to say it’s a tie between Fires of Heaven, Winter’s Heart, and Towers of Midnight (though Gathering Storm has incredible stuff too)–but The Shadow Rising is still way up there in my estimation. It really opens up the world and world-building a lot more, it introduces incredibly important things which underlie the whole series and will be critical all the way to the end, it’s got amazing characterization, action, and plot, and while it doesn’t tie up all the plots the way the previous books did, it does resolve them in some great places that springboard to what is to come. It’s definitely one of the better written in the series.
@2 AndrewHB: Completely agree with your analysis of Couladin and Sevanna. Not so sure about Mierin knowing what she was doing with the drilling, but you could be right.
@6 Jason_UmmaMacabre: Absolutely.
@7 BaselGill: LOL!
@12 Tessuna: LOL again! And your post at 17 is even funnier! Also, I have to agree in not hating Sweet’s art as much as so many others do. It helps I was first introduced to him via Xanth.
@20 RedHand: Good point re: the headband, I didn’t even think of that. (Though to be fair it was described in the book as a cloth, not folded into a band.)
@22 Ways: Fantasy fans, overanalyzing? Never. ;) :D
Wow, those are some dense posts, Macster.
@@@@@ 21 eep Thank you, I actually came to the redux after discovering the re-read. I disagree with a lot of stuff in the original re-read and wish I’d been around for the discussions, but that’s the way it goes. I do love a lot of the stuff Leigh wrote, as well as others, I just have some (from my point of view) more in-depth knowledge on some of the things going on due to having read these books so often (often restarting them when I’d reach the end, to find new things), that I’d often see something in an old re-read and go, “No, it’s X, not Y!” Ha.
Things like my belief that the Three Oaths may very well have come from Ishamael. Seriously, think about the dogmatic following of these beliefs, which may seem like a good idea at first, but when examined, truly cripple the Aes Sedai in ways they were NOT constrained before you had the Sealing and the Breaking, and it seems like a perfect bit of espionage. Consider how silly the make no weapon with which one man can kill another thing is. Oh, no, we can’t possibly have men getting better swords than are available through your local blacksmith. Unless there are other weapons out there besides the Power-wrought blades, this makes no real sense (discounting what is done with Perrin’s hammer in the Sanderson books, which I found ridiculous, sorry to those who thought that was an awesome scene). The real constraints on the Aes Sedai are not being able to use the power as a weapon until you feel your life is threatened (which may well be too late to act) or against obvious Shadowspawn, and the inability to lie, which is pointed out by characters in the book as working against them because everyone knows you can’t trust what an Aes Sedai says, since they will twist their words around to make the truth dance a fine jig, as Jordan would say. However, we know Ishamael wasn’t completely sealed away from the world, and was able to interact with the outside world in cycles. What better way to hobble the Aes Sedai than creating rules which will benefit YOU, even while you release the Black Ajah from those same oaths?
Another thing I disagreed with, unless it is directly stated by Jordan in an interview somewhere, is the thing about the “ghosts” when Rand is facing Padan Fain. Fain’s reaction to them tells me he is the one who created them, even though it’s not a power we ever see again. I know, this is far in the future, but it’s something that stuck in my head. Even after the number of times I’ve read that scene, going back and re-reading it after having that possibility raised does not make me think it is the “natural” ghost phenomenon taking place. The timing is too coincidental, and Fain’s reaction to it isn’t any kind of surprise or pause in the action. They appear, and he immediately laughs and attacks Rand through them.
Oh, and to the point about Lanfear’s violent reaction to being called by her real name: This may very well be at least somewhat due to self-loathing on her part. People who do bad things that aren’t complete sociopaths often come to hate themselves and their actions. It’s psychoanalyzing a fictional character without being able to get feedback from her creator, but it’s a possibility.
Anyway, thank you for the welcome, hopefully I’ll be able to raise some interesting points and learn some new things myself. :)
RedHand @25. I do not think the timing matches up that Ishamael was responsible for creating the Three Oaths. The WoT Companion says that Ishamael is spun out about once every 1,000 years. He probably became trapped within the seal of the bore between 20-40 years after LTT’s death. Ishamael spun out next just before the Trolloc Wars. He was able to get the Trolloc Wars started and found the Black Ajah.
The WoT Companion notes that the 1st & 3rd Oaths were in place before the beginning of the Trolloc Wars and possibly as much as 500 years before. If the WoT Companion is correct, Ishamael could not possibly have instituted the Oaths.
I also disagree that the Oaths were a bad idea. I believe that by the time the series begins (i.e. Winternight in TEotW), the Oaths were what distinguished Aes Sedai from other channelers. This takes more importance by the time the Last Battle is over. You have all these groups of channelers (Ash’aman; Aiel; Kin; Windfinders; damane). The Oaths help to make them different. I agree that it shortens the Aes Sedai’s lifespan. In an age where you have potential for rogue channelers, at least the general populace knows what Aes Sedai can and cannot do. There were always people who were afraid of the One Power. Or they thought that because the Aes Sedai had extra long lifespan, they could more easily manipulate the world. These people might still have cause to doubt the Ash’aman or distrust the Aiel and Windfinders as non Randlanders. These people might be swayed by the Seanchan argument: all channelers should be collared and treated as potentially rabid animals.
Like many of the Aes Sedai, maybe I have been too indoctrinated into the Aes Sedai party line. Whatever the reason, I believe as does Siuan Sanche when she discusses this issue with Egwene. There was a certain time when after being raised Amyrlin, Egwene thought it would be a good idea to get rid of the Three Oaths. Siuan argued vigorously against Egwene’s idea. I favor Egwene’s final solution. So long as an Aes Sedai remains an Aes Sedai (and all that goes with it), she has to be bound by the 3 Oaths. If she wants to retire and no longer be Aes Sedai (to help live longer), then that women can have the 3 Oaths removed. However, that women no longer has rights to be an Aes Sedai. I would summarize Siuan’s argument except I cannot remember where in the books that scene took place.
Per the WoT Companion, the 1 and 3rd Oaths came about because of the general populace’s suspicion toward Aes Sedai. They knew that the world broke after a world war where each side used lots and lots of the One Power. They did not care that only the male half of the One Power was tainted. To them channeling is channeling. If what occurred in the Seanchan lands was any indication, had the Aes Sedai not sworn the Oaths, they would have been despots who used power to keep their power and defeat their rivals.
In practicality, the 3 Oaths do not provide the as much of a disadvantage as one might think. The 1st Oath has lead the Aes Sedai to learn how to carefully choose their words. If one can get an Aes Sedai to say something straight, then you know that it is the truth (at least the truth as how the Aes Sedai sees things). By that, I mean that if an Aes Sedai believes something, she can say that it is the truth, even if the Aes Sedai is wrong. I do not think the 3rd Oath is a pediment to any Aes Sedai. She cannot use the One Power as a weapon, except as follows: a) against Shadowspawn; b) Darkfriends; c) defense of her own life; d) defense of her warder’s life; and e) defense of another Aes Sedai’s life. Those aroverall Japanese society and the results of the two atomic bombs dropped onto Japan, Japan said no more to producing atomic weapons. The atomic weapon could be said to be the equivalent of a power wrought weapon. I can see why people would not want the Aes Sedai to produce power wrought weapons. A world war just ended. Prior to this war, the world had limited or no knowledge of war. In that context, the 2nd Oath is understandable.e fairly large exceptions.
I see the 2nd Oath as something analogous to Japan’s constitutional prohibition of nuclear weapons. Japan’s constitution prohibits the production, possession, or introduction of nuclear weapons. Due in part to its pre war military importance to its society and the aftermath of the bombs dropped on Japan, Japan decided to have nothing to do with nuclear weapons. The nuclear weapon was the Age of Legend equivalent of the power wrought weapons. After a world war in a society that did not know war prior to the war, it is easy to understand why they do not want more of these super weapons made.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
@26 I’m ok with most of this post but I have to disagree that unbreakable swords are the equivalent of nuclear weapons. If anything in WOT is like nuclear weapons, it is Channeling itself. Power wrought weapons are barely different from regular weapons, just more reliable and longer lasting. Now, if there were more destructive power wrought weapons in the Age of Legends, the comparison and the prohibition would make more sense. But not for the swords we’ve seen. If anything, in an age of chaos like what followed the Breaking, when people distrust Channeling, I would think non-channelers would prefer Aes Sedai to use their power to create tools that regular people could use, over using their power directly which only keeps the Channelers in control.
The original purpose of the ban against making weapons with the OP was probably about things like the balefire rod, not unbreakable swords.
@9 – Where’s the hat, that’s what I want to know!